D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1420
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
my only suggestion is nerfing their initial movement speed to make escaping harder.
Any nerf to their shields, armor, ammo, etc would ruin them. Any buff to dropship weaponry although much needed could cause other unforseen issues (dropships however are still easy to down). Any buff to AV would put us right back at the start of 1.6.
So, what can be done that won't undue the tank buff but balance them?
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1420
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Dropships are balanced.
High maneuverability and damage potential (missiles) are balanced by instability and low health. Every for of AV aside from grenades threaten dropships in one way or another effectively. I am worried that any "balancing" done to AV due to tanks will be harmful to dropships, so please think holistically about proposed changes.
exactly. Well, dropships i think need a 5% buff to their weapon damage, or a skill to increase it. Dropships epitomize the "glass cannon". Still dropships are extremely easy to 'neutralize', so im not concerned about them.
(*I use neutralize because dropships can fly up high enough not to get hit, but in doing so remove themselves from the game and from being effective for their team)
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1420
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:I'm curious about whether or not people actually realise that HAVs are supposed to be effective against infantry, or if they realise that rails can also take out infantry or that missiles are incredibly potent anti-infantry weapons, or are people just on the good **** and blind as ****? People aren't seeking balance anymore they're just rattling off bullshit because they're angry.
By the way this is coming from a mostly infantry player.
Well, I'm just concerned that the only way to take out a tank is with other tanks. I beleive reducing vehicle acerleration will make them more succeptible to conentrated AV attacks.
1 guy with AV is meh vs tanks. but 4 guys with AV can WTF PWN tanks. problems is you get 4 guys with AV in an area where a tank is and the tank just drives away at light speed and you nt do anything about it...
yes, in RL tanks can do that. but also in RL infantry anti vehicular weapons can kill tanks in one shot and helicopters can kill tanks as well. sine this obviously isnt happening in dust, something else must be done to make tanks feel like tanks but make AV feel like AV and not wasted SP
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1421
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jakar Umbra wrote:Sorry if I come across as somewhat frustrated about the matter but here's the thing, real life or not tanks are supposed to be effective against infantry. When a tank shows up infantry are supposed to hide. Now here's the thing about tank speed, we need a more direct way, as infantry, of dealing with it. A stasis Webifier of some sort would suffice, perhaps a grenade variant that creates a short term stasis field and a more powerful sustainable module to fit on a vehicle that would slow down another vehicle's speed (including turret rotation), but requires a lock on and can only be used on other vehicles.
just to clearify: 1.) I never said infantry are supposed to survive tank attacks. Tank vs infantry = dead infantry. This must always remain like that. If tanks can not kill infantry then there is no point to tanks. So, just so you see we are on the same page. Tanks should always kill infantry.
2.) AV vs tanks = tank should die. i am going to be very clear AV should NEVER insta-kill tanks. because infantry weapons dont instakill infantry, AV weapons shouldnt instakill vehicles.
3.) This is the most important line. Just as it is difficult for infantrymen to escape from a battle they commited to, tanks should have difficult escaping from AV. How so? Think of it this way, If to people with ARs are fighting each other if one gets weaker, its not easy for him to just up and leave the engagement.... likewise, when tanks drive into groups of infantry armed with AV, it shouldnt be so easy for them to disengage. It becomes low risk, high reward.
the webifier idea sounds great. but, I also beleive tank acceleration must be reduced by a reasonable percentage.
Quote: Now, I personally don't believe that a single person on foot should be able to take out a tank without some creativity on the person's part, or in my case Wiyrkomi Swarms and EX-11 Packed AV, (MLT tanks should be easier to deal with with lower level AV btw), but the problem is that people seem to think that tanks should only be effective against other tanks, at which point, you might as well take tanks out of the game entirely. Tanks are supposed to be the faces of near impenetrable walls or nigh unstoppable assaults, but they're not indestructible. That said, the current modules need to be toned down as well as retiered for something other than cooldown time. MLT tanks also need to be weaker naturally than standard.
They are also other issues which need to be addressed such as the map designers changing their direction so that the redline ceases to be a problem. Actual physical barriers need to be put in place to prevent shooting into and out of the redline, to stop redline tankers. I've seen assault dropships, our "helicopters" (which in my opinion by definition of being a dropship should not have a weapon bonus) take out tanks but only outside of the redline.
One of the problems is people try to come up with the simplest short term solutions but don't realise that there could be unneccessary consequences to some of their solutions. Rather than slow down vehicle acceleration use the opportunity to add something else to the arsenal of infantry, something that would slow down tanks.
I am going to be very clear:
1. No sole infantrymen should every be able to single handedly take out a tank effiiently. Because then its 1.6 all over again. (However, I do beleive AV grenades should get a bonus for being thrown on a tank in close proximity. This will discourage tanks from running into groups of infantry and firing everywhere without concequence. If my infantrymen is close enough to stand ontop of your tank I should be able to do signifiant damage... a molotov cocktail type deal...)
2. you are 100% correct. If tanks dnt affect infantry and only interat with other tanks, then there is no point to tanks. Tanks were originally onstructed in WWI to over run infantry trenches and take out infantry. Tanks are designed to be anti-vehicle and anti-perssonel.
3. The modules are perfectly fine. The problem is that when the modules are no longer active the tank can simple disengage and recover. Then need to be slower to accelerate, then they will have to play more tactically.
4. DS need a weapon bonus. They are glass cannons without the cannon. They can barely takeout militia tanks (properly modded) without using ADV and PROTO turrets. Plus, helicopters kill tanks so, DS killing a tank is balanced because Rail cannons can kill DS even with its hardeners active in 3-4 hits from accross the map.
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